Rarity and such...

[spl310]

There has often been discussion of the rare versions of the Roadsters. Considering that the ENTIRE production of Roadsters is equivalent to about 2 weeks production of the contemporary Ford Mustang, it would mean that ALL Roadsters are rare.

Often, the 67.5 2000 is called the rarest. Then the Mikuni-Solex powered 67.5 2000 is called the rarest of the rare. Well, there is actually another Roadster that has less volume produced. The 1965 1500 (not the rebadged 1964 models, but the true 1965 models) have less production volume. Add to that that there was a handfull (I have heard 5 or 6) were actually originally produced for the 1965 model year. I believe that Duram Plummer did a fantastic restoration of one of those.

In defense of those that crow about the 67.5, it's collectors interest is due to the fact that it is somewhat of an oddity - much like the 65 1500. The distinction is that the 2000 has some features that make it stand out. It is the first Datsun to use a 5 speed. It is the beginning of the 2000 series, and at the same time the end of the low windshield cars. It is also the first series of the "safety" design cars sporting such features as the dual master cylinder and the toned down interior that has non-reflective surfaces. The seats are of a more modern desgn with the locking backs and the headrests. This it a unique vehicle. There are some 67.5 2000 specific item.

The 65 1500 is also unique. This is the first of a redesigned interior (except for the 5 or 6 3 seaters) with the chrome gauges that are dispersed rather than being clustered. The console has a unique shape with the ash tray integrated into it, and the armrest console is unique as well. It is also the beginning of the redesigned body (except for the front fenders) and the end of the 1500s.

All that having been said, ALL roadsters are worth saving if possible. I understand that some people want to modify their calls and make it personal to them. That is fine, but I maintain that the vast majority of Roadsters are getting further and further from being stock. If the mods are bolt on and the original parts are retained, that is not bad. What is dismaying is when I see or hear about a dead on low mileage that is original is being chopped. With only 40,000 or so Roadsters originally made and quite a few having been wrecked, chopped for parts, junked because the local dealer was too lazy to look for a part, rusted into oblivion, and so forth, I believe that complete original cars should be restored while models that have had some damage or loss of serious original parts are should be the ones used for the modifications. That would keep them alive rather than letting them die a slow death.

Rarity? That to me is not the big burning issue on Roadsters. The reason that I love the Roadster is that it is unique, fun and surprising due to the performance that they have.

Now, before anyone casts dispersions, note that I own a 1964 1500 (titled as a 1965 - not one of the really rare 1500s) and a couple of the 1967.5 2000s. I picked these because the 1500 was the first that I saw other than in photos (in 20+ years of Roadster fanaticism). The 2000s were because I love low windshield cars and wanted to feel the power of a solex 2000.

OK, off the soap box now - fire at will!

[DatsunBucky]

OK, off the soap box now - fire at will!

Why? What did Will do?

Seriously folks, I'm partial to the 67.5 1600 because it was the first new car I ever had. Rarity has nothing to do with it. I loved that car, and I had an absolute blast driving it. I looked at a lot of other cars at the time, but none hit me like the Datsun. So what if it had only 96 hp (at the crank...on a good day...downhill). It just didn't matter.

As is evidenced by my signature, I'm still actively looking for that car. I just hope it wasn't raped by the guy I sold it to, then scrapped.

I did some number crunching, and the car I'm currently setting up for autocross would cost me more to get ready for the street than to set it up for racing. For me it's simply a matter of economics. I wish I could afford two of the little guys, but the family treasurer simply wouldn't hear of it.

So, to those of you who drive 'em on the street: WAY TO GO!!!

Keep the faith, baby!

[SLOroadster]

All the mods I have done can be taken off. I refuse to deface the car in anyway. Ok so I race it, it is also my daily driver and is somewhat of a pain in that department, but I have gotten used to the fact that it will stall in traffic. I just have to be carefull. As far as cutting it up to race it, NO WAY! I might roll the rear fenders, but that will be it.

Just my $.02
Will (now running for cover......)

[spl310]

Hmmm... I don't know how this ended up in Tech Discussions. I intended it to be in general discussion....

Anyway, I was just in the mood to be on the soap box. Now, when you shoot at Will, remember to shoot low - his car has been dropped.

Just kidding all. If you REALLY have to shoot at will, do it at a 10 foot range with a number 5 rubber band! (you may want to wear some sunglasses Will - you will look cool and have some eye protection from the snipers )

Steve, can we get this moved to the appropriate area?

[S Allen]

Moved it to the general discussion area.

Steve

[70MTroadster]

In 1972 I took a test ride in a Mazda RX2 and the salesman said, "just don't take it over 4000 through the gears, OK?" So I get on the freeway in Bakersfield, not paying any attention to the speedo but watching the tach. After shifting into 4th at 4000 I look down and I'm going 95 What a car, what a machine. I believe ads at that time said that the Mazda was quieter than a Caddy. True. I was there. This little car would burn rubber and go like stink beyond belief. Then, one day, my cousin shows up with this light yellow colored Datsun 2000. Of course we have to race. He blows me in the weeds, period. Gotta be drivers, right? Uh, uh. We change places and I blow him off Big Time This all led to me searching out and finding a red, servo sycho, DynaPlastics hardtop 2000. THE best car I've ever owned. It would go like hell and my cousin, his wife, me and my wife would RACE all the way from Bakersfield to Porterville, then RACE, at GREAT PERIL, all the way up to Camp Nelson east of there to visit with our Gramma and Grandpa.

Without question those were the best days of my wifes and my lives. I sold that car to move to Idaho along with my cousin and his wife. Later, when my cousin moved back to CA, I bought his light yellow colored 2000 from him and drove it until I decided I had to change avocations yet again and sold that one.

I agree with Sid and others on this forum that we should try to keep them as stock as possible and not let them get chopped up and/or morfed into something that they are not/were not.

My 1600 will have the badges left stock. However, the stroker 2L that will live unter the hood may well surprise some unsuspecting fella soon

scott

[Minh]

I thought long about this topic before writing, so here it goes... Sid and Will are right. <period> They got the morality of it dead on the nail.

(here comes the "but")

However,
There is no real deterence to stop a person from going Discovery-Channel-Custom-Biker-Build-Off on these cars. To go custom/modified is as about American as Hot Rodding, Baseball, Apple Pie, and buying Craftsman tools from Sears. It is a extension of freedom and self expression. Part Art, part craftsmanship. It is a red blooded straight guy's outlet, like what a PC is to a nerd.

Certain cars have the deterance of devaluation. If you chop-up say a 55-57 Corvette, any AC Cobra, Ford GT-40, Ferrari GT-250 California, or 57 Porsche Spyder you just might as well kiss <SWAK> $30-80,000 good bye. And have everyone call you a flaming dullard insipid idiot, "What the hell are ya' doin!!!"

But this is an act of sacrilege that has now punishment - NONE!!!

To cut-up a Roadster has a minimal fine at time of resale. Except the certain models mention a few: 67 1/2 2000, 65 1500, any S212... etc, etc...

However, even then the penalty fine percentage is high, but the dollar amount is trifle...

What about the Morality and Ridicule factor? You'll get only from Roadster and maybe Datsun enthusiasts.

If these cars can ever stop friggin' being a lost page in the annuls of American or Japanese car history there will be some weight behind the morality keep them fully restored stock. The earilest British, German, and Italian roadster get unsurpassed homage.

Until then, it's just blowing in the wind.

(here comes the flames)

[spl310]

Minh,

While the probability of the Roadster reaching the same status, remember that the 300SL gullwing Mercedes of the late fifties were often chopped in the late 60's so that Chrysler Hemi's and big block Chevies and other such esoterica can be stuffed into them. Fortunately, the purists kept the cars alive and eventually they were seen as classic Mercedes, and their values went to dizzying heights. Same for Austin Healy 3000s, and some other imports. Back in the 60's and 70's, a lot of early corvettes were radically modified. A plus in their favor is the volume of available cars to do this with. While a lot of folks disagree with me on this, I believe that if the Roadster owners viewed their cars as true collectibles and they were shown more at more venues (really well produced shows and more frequently at rod runs and cruise ins) the word would get out and interest and value would increase.

It is a point to consider. Either way, exposure of cosmetically nice (not necessarily perfect) Roadsters can only help value. Another thought to consider is that folks that are getting ready to retire and look for a project would likely have been driving and have a family at the time that Roadsters were new. This means that old fires can be rekindled by those that have the cash to do them right, and the love to pay a little more than the average bear to get one for nostalgia's sake.

There will always be folks that want to make their car unique to them. For example there is a fellow that lives near me with a Viper roadster. They are not exactly cheap, but he personalized his with all kinds of goofy bolt ons and had a pair of skunk stripes added. They are bass boat glitter purple with white trim. Looks like a pimp car... In the future when the Vipers are more collectable, this car would be passed over by the collectors in favor of a car that is stock in similar wear and mileage condition due to it's modifications. For some cars, having the paint changed to a different shade than stock drops the value by insane amounts of money.


Just food for thought.

[Datsa 66]

Going to dive in here-

As someone who has spent insane money on a restoration of a "rare" Datsun Roadster I think I am in a position to comment about this topic.

I think it boils down to the fact that Datsun Roadsters have no real Marquee in the collectible world of cars. Sure, there are stock definitions, but there has never been anyeffort to difine guidelines as to what the point system of judging the cars at shows are. In fact, we tend to take it as a point of pride that our cars are almost always judged by "people's choice". Peoples choice means that what I like you may not like.

I think this discussion is about whether we want to see the roadsters as a marquee that the community supports or we maintain the freedom and camraderie of owning and unusual car that no one wil mistake for an MGB.

In my own restoration I did make mods away from stock. None of the mods I made detract from the appearance or function of the car. But if there was a judging standard made for our cars I would not meet them. I am not interested in creating a mueseum piece. I want a car that reflects my tastes and desires. If I wanted a car to own a Marquee of distinction I would not have chosen a Datsun Roadster.

I have never seen two roadsters that were exactly alike and that is one reason I love them so much: they reflect individuality and not conformity. If I want that, I would buy a different car.

My .02

Andrew Murphy
1967.5 2000 SRL311-00489

[oilleak]

If I wanted a car to own a Marquee of distinction I would not have chosen a Datsun Roadster.
I have never seen two roadsters that were exactly alike and that is one reason I love them so much: they reflect individuality and not conformity. If I want that, I would buy a different car.

Amen. I was at Sprite Rush in 98 and standing next to a guy talking to a judge about his car's originality. I was asked to leave as that was a private conversation. Across the field was a Sprite with the hood up and 3 or 4 guys bent over the engine. One of them was telling the others about the Weber carb set up he had put on it. Teaching, helping, friendly. Anyone is welcome to hang with the ass holes of the world if they choose but I'll hang out with the car guys. Much better crowd.

[SLOroadster]

DATZOOM has one of the nicest and most correct matching number cars out there, at both Shasta and Solvang he got shut out on the placings.SRL#688 is a Canadian car, it still has the correct exhaust, and the old style solexs. The interior is flawless and the engine is the same, yet he gets the short end of the stick. The paint has a couple of chips but so does everyone elses. I'd almost have to say that his car is very close to a 95 point car, no its not perfect but it is the most correct car I have seen yet. The engine block is painted correctly as well. What the roadster needs is to be shown at BIG events. When was the last time you saw a roadster at Pebble Beach?
70Mt, my parents live in Porterville. The run up to Camp Nelson would be fun in a roadster. Hmmmm perhaps I will have to do that next time I visit.

Will
(wearing a bullet proof vest and a pair of Oakleys )

[DELETED]

DELETED

[Datsa 66]

Which is my point exactly. Dan's car is a beautiful car and I also liked the right hand drive car at Solvang as well, but neither won any awards. The awards are people's choice and as long as that is the case then there will never be any award for correctness.

Personally, I could give two shits about awards. I go to have fun and enjoy the cars. If you want to make your car bone stock and take it to a sanctioned award show, I wish you luck.

Me? I will go to Solvang and Shasta and have fun and enjoy the cars and talk to the people who share my passion.

No award will ever do that.


Andrew Murphy
SRL311-00489

[roadsterdude]

[quote="Solex67"]Which is my point exactly. Dan's car is a beautiful car and I also liked the right hand drive car at Solvang as well, but neither won any awards. The awards are people's choice and as long as that is the case then there will never be any award for correctness.


By the way the right hand drive did win 2nd place...

But for me its always going to be first place in my heart...

[Datsa 66]

Oooops! Sorry about that. Personally, I voted the car best in show but didn't remember it winning an award. My bad.

Anyhow, I still think the reward is in the owning and enjoying, not the trophy.


Andrew Murphy
1967.5 2000 SRL311-00489