Greg’s ‘69 SRL311-07324

[theunz]

Good advice from Greg and JT. The only thing I’d say is that rather than bumping the starter or turning the crank with a socket is to remove the spark plugs, put the transmission in 5th or reverse depending on which direction you have room in front or back of the car, and then just push the car to move the cam. It moves easier in 5th, but doesn’t take much effort in either gear. It’s a lot easier for me to get the cam exactly where i want it than bumping the starter and there is not much room to get to the crank bolt.

[Stick]

OK - quick update... I just went and spot checked 4 locations with the cam lobe pointing up and the measurements were essentially the same (one clearance was .002" less than previously) which tells me that the clearances are pretty far out of spec. I took a short video but cannot get it to upload.

[Stick]

Good advice from Greg and JT. The only thing I’d say is that rather than bumping the starter or turning the crank with a socket is to remove the spark plugs, put the transmission in 5th or reverse depending on which direction you have room in front or back of the car, and then just push the car to move the cam. It moves easier in 5th, but doesn’t take much effort in either gear. It’s a lot easier for me to get the cam exactly where i want it than bumping the starter and there is not much room to get to the crank bolt.

Thanks, Mike ... I'll give the a try - the plugs are already out and plenty of room. (I'll have to do it in reverse as I currently don't have the 5th gear - need to pull the motor/trans soon get that sorted.

[JT68]

No need to upload a video....All you are doing when you set the U20 valve clearance is setting the maximum clearance between the rocker and back of cam lobe-its that simple. As the cam comes around the clearance will reduce until the valve begins to open at zero clearance. No matter where the lobe is, it should never be MORE than .006-.008 (or the recommended lash for your cam depending).

The reason to put the lobe at 12:00 is that it makes sure you are completely off the "ramps" of the lobes.

You may want to inspect the rocker surfaces. .020-.030 is a mile so you may have wear happening. If the rockers wear into the soft base material, it will begin to destroy the cam in fairly short order. You don't want that.

Poor quality/budget rocker regrinds and cheap one-piece "reconditioned" rockers will destroy your cam! Definitely something to avoid!

[Stick]

Thanks again for all of the guidance. JT - all of the rockers, parts and cam came from DRP ... I really leaning toward a shop that didn't either have the correct tolerances or just didn't set them correctly ... everything was tightly adjusted.
I inspected the rocker pads and cannot see any wear patterns that look abnormal I got all of the tolerances adjusted with the lobes pointing straight up. replaced plugs and rocker cover and started it up and you could immediately hear the difference. It looks like there is a little more engine movement than previous as it idle, but sounded so much better without the ticking noise! I let it idle for a few minutes and then took it for a slow ride around there neighborhood to bring it up to temp.

Just cruising it around you could tell it was a different car ... great sound and the power was so much smoother as well as it felt like it had a bit more power. when I got home I removed the cover and inspected the clearances with the car hot.... they pretty much stayed where adjusted or opened up a thousandth but I didn't drive very far and never exceeded 4k rpm.

I'll take it for a longer drive after I get some stitches in my hand after I just snagged it on a sharp edge of a band clamp that someone snipped!

Cheers

[Gregs672000]

Sounds like you're on track. If the adjustment was way loose it would not allow the valves to open as much and the slop would make them clatter. Too tight (to where the valve head never seats down and seals) can cause the valve to "burn" because it cannot physically transfer heat to the head, especially the exhaust valves. In both circumstances it reduces engine power. If the engine is now rocking a bit more, it is likely that the carbs need to be checked again for airflow balance as you have changed/improved the engines vacuum in the cylinders so they are pulling a higher/different amount of air. That's why it is important to be confident of the valve adjustment when balancing the carbs... it's all a system!

Oh and +1 on Mike’s "put it in gear and move the engine that way"... forgot about that. I don't have a stock fan etc so it is easy for me to use the crank bolt, but I do know that's not as easy if stock.

[JT68]

Thanks again for all of the guidance. JT - all of the rockers, parts and cam came from DRP..

Just cruising it around you could tell it was a different car ... great sound and the power was so much smoother as well as it felt like it had a bit more power. when I got home I removed the cover and inspected the clearances with the car hot.... they pretty much stayed where adjusted or opened up a thousandth but I didn't drive very far and never exceeded 4k rpm.

I'll take it for a longer drive after I get some stitches in my hand after I just snagged it on a sharp edge of a band clamp that someone snipped!

Cheers

Bummer on the stitches, but excellent on the cam work. Nice job

[Stick]

Worked on rebalancing the carbs at idle today using Uni-Syn balancer. Struggled a bit getting things balanced and then bringing the idle back down under 1000 and then rebalancing. Very small turns made a bigger difference than expected and take a moment to settle in.

I also tried to do a slide lift to see how it reacted to the mixture …. this was also a bit of a learning curve and I simply left as is for now. Checked the plugs after a long idle and again after some time at high rpm (4k) and plugs looked pretty good … much better than they did before the valve adjustments.

I’ll have to get some time with it and see how it goes.

[Stick]

.

[Gregs672000]

A unisyn is a little more difficult to use than "the snail" version as it chokes down the carb each time you put it in front of the throat whereas the snail does not... may be worth getting one (available on Amazon). You'll be able to hold the unit against the carb as long as you want and make fine adjustments. I have something similar to the snail but I don't see it on the Internet often anymore.

When you do the carb piston push up test, know that you are testing the air/fuel ratio of the OPPOSITE carb of the one you're pushing the piston up on... you're "turning off" the carb you push. Rpm should increase for a very short second, then drop and run on two cylinders but not die when set right. Keith has a great tutorial in the wiki on SUs I hear.

All of this is a learning process and the more you mess with it the more you will learn! In general, backfiring through the carbs and run on after shutting off are usually indications of a lean mix, slow response/flat (blaaaaaah) is more likely a rich condition (and jerking or surging is likely lean). Your plugs are good indicators but give an overall view. You can test certain areas of engine operation by installing new clean plugs and then immediately driving it at certain rpms (say 4000rpm) for a bit, then shutting it off with little to no idle time (like shutting it off and coasting to a safe place on the side of the road), then pulling the plugs and reviewing for color (bring gloves... they're hot!). You can do this if you're having problems at higher rpms and want to see what the mix looks like... just an FYI. After having done this myself for many years, a wideband O2 sensor set up was a God send! Just so you know, air/fuel ratio won't change power output that much so long as it's not horribly off. Too lean is more dangerous/stressful on the engine. A/F ratio is probably more about engine responsiveness and fuel economy. Power is found in the igntion/timing, and more timing isn't necessarily better... it's all about what the engine wants at a specific rpm and you won't be able to adjust that much without a more advanced igntion system like a 123 distributor and a dyno.

Ok, too much coffee... I'll shut up now!

[Stick]

Greg - your posts are so helpful and I appreciate it ... I have read through hundreds over the past couple of weeks and likely in the past couple of days .. I've had some free time and have worked on the roadster for the past 3 days. Have to throw a shout out to JT as well as I have referred back to numerous of his posts as well. There are so many helpful people here.

Today I chased some electrical issues where the common 20A fuse was blowing. I traced that back to the cigarette lighter wire was grounded out on the tunnel. I don't have the lighter, so someone left it disconnected and loose ... found out it was a hot wire and the lighter provides the ground. While I was under there I saw there was a ground wire and screw for the map light that was undone ... hooked that up and Walla ... the light worked.

IMG_1184.jpeg

I also chased the electrical for the coolant temp gauge and couldn't really find anything ... I did some more reading and saw your post, Greg, about grounding the sensor to the bolt right next to it. During that process I removed the spark plug wire from #2 to make Zip tying the wire a little easier . I forgot to plug it back in and start it up and drive down the street to get it to temp and check and see if it worked. It was a little rough running but settled down with a little choke ... I thought it was just cold. Got about 100 ft down the street and it died. Couldn't restart it and pushed it back home ... what a knuckle head!
Got it running after letting it sit for about an hour or so and let it idle for bit and the temp gauge now works.

After changing the valve clearances, rebalancing the carbs and adjusting the idle it was running much better, but still not as smooth as I want it and know it can be. I checked the timing after verifying that the TDC mark on the balancer was actually TDC and cleaned up the marks). It was running about 8-9 degrees. I turned the distributer a bit and brought it up to 16-17 degrees and it was running much better... but now at a higher idle. Back to the carb balancer and idle adjustments!

After finding the valve clearances off by 4-5 times the recommended clearance I was a little suspect of the tuning so I'm just checking everything ... and learning along the way. Need to get some stick time behind it now and do some longer shakedown runs and recheck the tuning. Hoping to have this in good shape for the spring and summer months.

Thanks again to everyone for their contributions. Happy roadstering,.

Greg

[Gregs672000]

Hey Greg, I'm happy to try and help! I really enjoy this family, all the knowledge shared and the lack of ego issues. I get to share in others success and maybe relieve some concerns... all fun for me!

Speaking of concerns, be sure to determine if you have a smog dizzy or a non-smog (you may have already posted? I didn't dig into the previous pages). They have a significantly different curve. Early were set at 17 degrees idle advance and add in the remainder to about 36 degrees total, while later were set at 0 and added in the 36 degrees. If you time a smog dizzy at 17 it will add in 36 degrees on top of that and waaaaaay overtime the engine and could cause damage (and make it run horribly). Smooth and accurate ignition timing is critical, so as the engine revs up the timing light flashes should smoothly advance well beyond the final mark (far right is 20 degrees, so you can guess how much 36 degrees would be beyond that). Assuming you have a points distributor, the point gap is also important for proper tune (rotate the engine or the distributor so the points open on the lobe then measure with a feeler guage, adjust as needed). If you have upgraded to an EI dizzy all of that is taken care of for you! Just to close the loop, the reason the timing advances is that the engine needs more time to burn the fuel the faster the engine rotates. Too late (lower advance number) it won't have enough "time" and it won't burn all the fuel and will exhaust it out; too early (higher advance number) and the explosion will happen such that it pushes against the piston while mechanically it is being forced in the opposite direction (upward), causing the engine to fight itself (and resulting in damage). You may already understand all of this but I didn't want to assume anything! Keep up the good work!

[Stick]

Thanks Greg ... The car has a Pertronix electronic ignition installed. I would say I have a decent general knowledge with some limited experience... by no means an expert and always room to learn more. Before I had kids I had a 65 Mustang that was my learning platform as well as a number of motorcycles that were constant maintenance and repair! Most people don't like to work on their stuff, but I like to do the majority of stuff myself as I enjoy it. I do generally leave the bigger jobs to those who are better qualified.

I feel like I'm just getting to know this thing.

[Gregs672000]

The Pertronix is good, but it does not determine what curve is in the distributor... Unfortunately that is determined by the parts inside the distributor, and unless you know you'll have to disassemble it a bit to see the numbers stamped. Alternatively, if you have a dial back timing light you can hook it up, rev the engine to above 3500rpm, then "dial back" the dial on the light to what ever your idle timing was (say 17, the light flash will move backwards as you adjust the dial) and you should have to remove or dial back about 18-19 degrees if it's a NON-smog dizzy. Harbor Freight has an inexpensive dial back timing light. If you don't have a dial back light, then you could "guesstimate" some marks on the crank pully based on the existing marks and measure the distance from like 15 degrees to 20 degrees and then mark your best guess at 25, 30, and 35. Since you're just determining what curve you have, if the timing light flashes way beyond the final (35) mark when you have the idle timing set at 17 you'll know you have a smog dizzy that is adding in 35 degrees ON TOP OF the 17 you already advanced it... waaaaaay to much! If it's a smog dizzy, the you will want to set it to 0 at idle, and start looking for the proper parts to convert it to non-smog (weights, springs and slotted T).

Sounds like us Gregs are much the same! I too like to do my own work when/if I can, but there are certain things I ship out (transmissions, most serious electrical stuff, welding). Not an expert on any of it, but have messed with this car and a few other daily drivers for many many years and learned from the numerous mistakes I've made and the many experts I've spoken to... just happy to pass on whatever I've learned... hopefully it's right!

[Stick]

Didn't realize that! My light is not a dial back, but I'll pick one up to better determine what the curve is like. I ordered the snail today to give that a try instead of the Uni-Syn gauge. I was looking at a dial back light as well today (Innova 5568 or something like that) but decided to stick with what I had for the moment. They're pretty inexpensive in the long run so I'll just grab one.