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Re: Engine Rattle around 4k rpm, timing chain?

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:51 am
by Gregs672000
Ya, that's pretty amazing. I have no idea what mine moved like, but the crank itself was ground down A LOT (I'll see if I can dig it out and take a pic).

Looking at the gears, two don't look too bad (crank gear and big jackshaft gear) and COULD be considered as runnable if funds are needed elsewhere, but the cam and inner jackshaft gears look too worn to me. You look for sharp teeth (the flat surface of the tooth wears until it's sharp) and undercutting where it rounds out the slot and creates a "Christmas tree" look to the tooth. Back in the day when the gears were rare and super expensive I took mine to Dann at Rallye and he told me what was OK and what wasn't, and I ran those gears for another 50k at least. Thanks to our great vendors we now have several high quality options with reasonable prices and individual gears can be bought. If you can replace all, great, but again I want to give as many options as possible and I don't think you would be risking anything by running those two gears. Better pics with the gear upright so we can see all the teeth might help make a final decision if in play. As always, get multiple opinions... I certainly don't know all!

That inner chain guide bolt head that's rounded off gives you an idea of how loose the cam chain was... I bet the Evil L was heavily damaged before it was cut off.

That engine was ready to explode. I know it sucks that you have discovered all of this, but the reality is the car would have likely failed in a spectacular way, and that would have been an unhappy and possibly dangerous day depending on the timing and circumstances, so consider yourself "lucky." :roll:

Re: Engine Rattle around 4k rpm, timing chain?

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:14 am
by AmishRoadster
I removed the cap where the thrust bearing should have been.

Re: Engine Rattle around 4k rpm, timing chain?

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:56 am
by Gregs672000
It's be a bit since I've looked closely at mine, but I'm not seeing ANY thrust in that bearing shell... I don't think it had the proper bearing to begin with? Is that even possible? My destroyed crank still had thrust bearing left as I recall. What was stopping the crank fore and aft movement... you can hear it hit against something in the video?

Re: Engine Rattle around 4k rpm, timing chain?

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:41 am
by redroadster
What oil & w were you using ?
And how hard was the clutch pedal , Pressure plates get hardened over time and can take out the thrust bearings

Re: Engine Rattle around 4k rpm, timing chain?

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:52 am
by david premo
Redroadster look at the picture, there is no thrust bearing in the number 3 main journal. It Does Not Matter What type of oil he used. The bearing is the wrong one! I went back and looked at other pictures and from what I’m seeing, the thrust bearing was installed on the number 1 journal, and the bearing cap there looks like it’s the number 3 cap from what I see. So who ever worked on this engine miss assembled it a long time ago before Amish Roadster touched it.
Dave

Re: Engine Rattle around 4k rpm, timing chain?

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 1:08 pm
by redroadster
I saw it immediately. Dp if 20w50, a bit cooler day especially it does matter it can have trouble pumping esp. With tight 4cy tolerances esp on oil changes .consult a good machine shop 1st

Re: Engine Rattle around 4k rpm, timing chain?

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 2:07 pm
by JT68
david premo wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:52 am Redroadster look at the picture, there is no thrust bearing in the number 3 main journal. It Does Not Matter What type of oil he used. The bearing is the wrong one! I went back and looked at other pictures and from what I’m seeing, the thrust bearing was installed on the number 1 journal, and the bearing cap there looks like it’s the number 3 cap from what I see. So who ever worked on this engine miss assembled it a long time ago before Amish Roadster touched it.
Dave

yikes

Re: Engine Rattle around 4k rpm, timing chain?

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:17 pm
by Gregs672000
:smt031 Well... Maybe he dodged a bullet and the crank will be ok... maybe... gonna be interesting!

Re: Engine Rattle around 4k rpm, timing chain?

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:07 pm
by nismou20
You would think the rebuilder would have caught that during the build. That is a lot of play!

Re: Engine Rattle around 4k rpm, timing chain?

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2023 5:18 pm
by unklpat
I think this is a worst case of "sins of the PO". there is no way a "rebuilder" would miss that. I'm glad Amish dove in, instead of taking my advice. Pat

Re: Engine Rattle around 4k rpm, timing chain?

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2023 7:23 pm
by david premo
Maybe he should modify it to “Lucky Amish Roadster”. That is a disaster avoided!

Re: Engine Rattle around 4k rpm, timing chain?

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2023 11:01 pm
by SLOroadster
nismou20 wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:07 pm You would think the rebuilder would have caught that during the build. That is a lot of play!
Whoever assembled this thing really wasn't paying attention. If the thrust bearing was on the #1 main, that took work as it doesn't want to go there. You have to make it go together there. Together with the missing chain link keeper, yeah this was a very expensive hand grenade with the pin pulled just waiting to go off. That would not have made someone's day.

Hopefully everything checks out and its a simple rebuild.

Will