R16 Build

[rahjr60]

With 3-5 inches of snow in the forecast this weekend at VIR and the race cancelled (again), the offseason officially begins. I'll be meeting tomorrow night with a potential engine builder to see where we are going to go now. We will start with a partial teardown to see exactly what we have (you can see my "newb question" thread below for my history with this car). I'd like to know if some of the veterans here could provide some guidance to the (still) new guy. Any info you are willing to provide with regard to engine specs that work for you, parts procurement, parts you want to sell, etc is much appreciated. I have printed the Col. Joe pages and I have the Bob Sharp manual to review also, but obviously a lot has changed since they were done. I plan to continue running F Prod with SCCA for now. Thanks.

[gpdatsun]

Hi Al,

I wrote this up for Elliot Harvey after he had contacted me about an R16 build. It's been a few years and one thing I've heard is that Chambers has not been very reliable (son now runs the shop). But here's some tips for you....Also, give my friend Sam Neave a call; he's down in NC and knows Datsuns! http://www.lnaenterprises.com/aboutus

Bill Wessel

Hey Elliot,

I'm honored, my friend in roadster racing! You've been THE solo champion of
the roadster world for longer than I've been running. I had the good
fortune to start talking with Joe Hauser, because I had a street 1600 and a
club racer/vintage 1600 and was ready to step up to a National car. When he
said he was ready to sell his car in '99, I bought him out and vowed to run
it just as hard as he had for as long as I was able. Joe is still around
btw and we e-mail occasionally.

I'd be happy to help anyway I can. Joe always ran the 3-main block (#'s <
40,000), but the cranks need to be drilled to live beyond 7,000 for any
length of time. He put up alot of his race tips on Rob Beddington's pages,
including the crank drilling. 3-main bearings are rare, though 5-main and
rod bearings are plentiful. Joe used lightened stock rods with stock bolts;
I have gone to Carillo's (saves the weight of one rod). I just had a run of
10 pistons made from JE (the Nick Diblasi reference). The problem with the
1600 is the tall compression height, but JE did what they could to lighten,
modernize the design. Rings are 1.2mm top ring, 1.5mm mid ring, and 3.0mm
oil rings.
I still use a cam design Joe came up with called the BL4 that he had ground
from Chambers (R C Automotive, 1414 Ritchie Marlboro Rd # A2, Capitol
Heights, Maryland 20743 (301)3508408). Joe and I use Ford y-block lifters
and Isky D-013 pushrods (old Nissan comp 99996-B1051).

In the heads you have to pocket ie, flycut the combustion chamber like as
described in the Sharp 1600 manual to accept the piston pop-up. And flycut
your valve pockets in the piston tops. I still use RD Spring #1002, which
was the old Nissan comp B-210 spring 99996-H1133 and works with the
aluminum retainer 99996-H1131. Not sure if these parts are still available
from Comp. I buy springs straight from RD Spring and I've gone to titanium
retainers and locks. Valves are also titanium, but Joe would use air cooled
1600 VW valves (very close in head diameter to GP spec 1.69" and 1.38" and
very close in overall length to stock) with VW locks that worked with the
aluminum retainer. The stock rockers work fine and Stan Chernoff has very
nice rebuilt sets. I recently bought a set of roller tipped aluminum
rockers he had, not sure if he has any more, but he could have another set
made. I use the Boone design distributor (which Stan also does), but have
wanted to go to a crankfire for some time now. Still use the wet sump and
2L pump.

For gaskets and other stuff you'll need, the H20 forklift parts places or
your favorite roadster vendor can help. E-Bay has alot of stuff when you
know what to search for. Good luck with the new solo class, I'll be
watching.

[JT68]

These are right up your alley: SS oversize intakes. Just finished these this week.

image2.jpeg

image1.jpeg

Datsun Comp are long NLA. Stock stem size and installed height. Uses stock retainers and keepers. Hardened tips.
We can cut them to +1mm if you are limited by the rule book.


PM me if you need them. You'd have to be incredibly good with a lathe to make these! jt

[rahjr60]

Thanks for the input guys.

Bill - I've been planning to email you since Mike sent me your info, but work has been nuts lately. I have copies of the Col's pages and have been referring to them a lot. I appreciate the additional info you added here. I was wondering if you are still running the three main engine as I have heard that bearings are hard to come by. I'm currently running a five main, but I have a three main engine in a parts car that I'm planning to pull and have checked out. I have talked to Sam several times about the car, he always seems to have a full shop. The engine is currently at Sam Moore's shop in Charlotte to get the cam profiled and timed correctly, and also see what else we can learn about the internals. The engine builder was deceased when I got the car and I spent last season getting my license, so I didn't want to tear it down during the season. I'll keep you posted.

Jim - Those look great! When I get the engine back and we develop a plan, I may be in touch. I would also like to talk to you again about your rear shocks. While the car is down I'll get the spring rate and see what we need. The fronts were great for the last two races last year.

[Gregs672000]

Wasn't this the car I was thinking also had the cam gear one tooth off (as I have seen before)? I would be curious if I was right.

[rahjr60]

Greg - Yes, same car. Takes me a while to get anything done. Hopefully I get a report soon as to where we stand and I'll let you know if you were right!

[gpdatsun]

Al, this you can tell by checking your piston to valve clearance (a must!). If you're off a tooth, it will be tight one side or the other (exhaust or intake), regardless of your cam profile...

Bill

[keith0alan]

Getting the cam timing proper on these is more fiddly than other engines that I have built. A quick check is that at TDC either cylinder 1 or 4 will be at overlap. The intake and exhaust should be just barely open and even. If one is way more open than the other then the cam timing is off.

[Linda]

Would be nice to see pic of that
Linda

[Gregs672000]

Getting the cam timing proper on these is more fiddly than other engines that I have built. A quick check is that at TDC either cylinder 1 or 4 will be at overlap. The intake and exhaust should be just barely open and even. If one is way more open than the other then the cam timing is off.

But but but... when building the engine, shouldn't everything clearly line up (cam and crank gear timing marks) with a new chain? I know the manual mentions counting the number of links for the longer U20 upper chain, and visualizing the gear timing marks are a bit more difficult on the U (I've done U20 chains many times), but I would think that the R would be pretty straight forward and no different than a Chevy V8. If one is not sure, you can spin the engine around a time or two and make sure the cam and crank gear timing marks line up (should do it anyway just to be sure).

If it's not that straight forward, please educate me as I don't know it all that's for sure!

[notoptoy]

It is that straight forward on an R16.

[rahjr60]

UPDATE:
Picked up the engine today and safely navigated home between storms. At some point, one of the spring retainer clips left the building and the other half was fortunately held in place by the rocker arm, so we didn't drop the valve. Also found a small wear spot on one cam lobe, one bad lifter and one bad pushrod. Sam said probably running on 3.5 cylinders at higher RPM. So the cam was reground, new lifters, new pushrods, rings, head bolts, rod bolts, bearings, seals, retainers, etc along with a new set of comp valves from JT68 and we should be ready to go. The plan is to install and break in this weekend and head to Roebling next weekend.

[Solex68]

Good luck!

[RCMike]

That is a lot going on.. Glad it did not get ugly..