1840cc 66 Roadster Build

[funkaholik]

Great shop! I love that there's a 10x10 door for normal cars, and what looks to be about a 6.5x6.5 door - roadster sized!

Nice work. That is quite a project.

[S Allen]

10 x10 and an 8 x7. The 8x7 looks tiny in comparison. Plenty big for a roadster for sure.

S

[ppeters914]

[snip]
Pete, how is your project doing? You should have passed me by now.

Steve

Not at all. With a few exceptions, haven't been here since my Jan 2021 post nor touched the car. Still sleeping where I left it in Aug 2020.

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Recently got interested again. Paint issue still an issue, but there's other things I can work on. Today's project might look familiar to you:
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And that's enough of a hijack.

Cheers,

[S Allen]

Hey Pete,

Yeah, life can get in the way can't it? Clear coating the aluminum head per chance? Hope to get back on my '66 once I get it hauled south. Shop is coming along nicely. Just finished installing the radiant/vapor barrier insulation on the side walls today. Need to finish up some electrical for the led lights. Then I will do the ceiling with radiant/vapor insulation. Seal the floors with epoxy and start moving stuff in.

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Steve

[iloveredmeat]

Man, that is so awesome looking.

A lot of work, but that must be fun designing and building a custom shop.

Good on ya.
pm

[S Allen]

The shop has been a lot of work but will be well worth it when done.

Steve

[Curtis]

I'll take the shop. Waiting for my 1800 to come back from the machine shop.

[ppeters914]

I believe the plastic fan is very hard to come by these days. I prefer it over the two piece metal fan just because. Not sure of any advantage to either plastic or metal. As to the shroud-I will be using a re-cored 2 liter radiator and will deal with that part when I get to it. I have a plastic on my 67.5 1600 stroker but I have no shroud on it as I run a temperature controlled electric puller fan.

Steve

Can you comment on why you and/or Mr. Premo decided to keep a mechanical fan on your strokers instead of electric fan only?

Thanks,

[JT68]

Pete, unless you need to control the fan electronically (like in modern cars with an ECU) there is little need, benefit or reason to run an electric fan. If you think about it, mechanical fans are inherently more efficient and more reliable for several reasons. The 4-blade 67.5 2L fan is very quiet and efficient whereas the later 7-blade fans howl like a jet engine. That is why we reproduced the 67 fan. The 4-blade nylon fan works great, looks great, and looks period correct on any roadster with a R,H or U engine. Nice work Steve, looking great!

[ppeters914]

I'm going to move this to a separate thread for further discussion rather than hijack Steve's build thread.

[JT68]

Not sure it really warrants a separate thread, looks perfect Steve. Terrific looking shop too!

[S Allen]

Thanks.

S

[ppeters914]

Not sure it really warrants a separate thread, looks perfect Steve. Terrific looking shop too!

Okay.

Pete, unless you need to control the fan electronically (like in modern cars with an ECU) there is little need, benefit or reason to run an electric fan. If you think about it, mechanical fans are inherently more efficient and more reliable for several reasons. The 4-blade 67.5 2L fan is very quiet and efficient whereas the later 7-blade fans howl like a jet engine. That is why we reproduced the 67 fan. The 4-blade nylon fan works great, looks great, and looks period correct on any roadster with a R,H or U engine. Nice work Steve, looking great!

REASON: At least 3 local roadster owners have added pusher electric fans to prevent overheating when idling in slow traffic. These are U20 and R16's with good stock or aluminum radiators.

BENEFIT/EFFICIENCY: Might be miniscule, but everything I've read is that mechanical fans rob horsepower and/or fuel economy.

APPEARANCE: Yes, a mechanical fan blade and shroud look period correct. I also think it looks clean without them, which is what I was thinking of.

FWIW, I have a 4-blade 2-piece metal from my '66 parts car, and a 6-blade nylon that was on my '67.
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[Bwk2000]

Okay …

Since you are looking for both pros and cons of each type of fan, I think this write up by Flex-a-Lite may help you decide which way you want to go with your car Pete.


Which is Better - an Electric or Belt-driven Fan?

This debate is as old as the electric fan itself. We manufacture both, so we're pretty unbiased on this topic. In fact, we created the first high-performance belt-driven fan in 1962, and we were the first to introduce an aftermarket electric fan to the U.S. in 1978. We'll jump right into the heart of the matter: An electric fan is the better performance solution, freeing up maximum horsepower and mpg. But it's not always the better cooling solution. The full answer to this question is that both electric and belt-driven fans have their place. Which one is better depends largely on the specific application.
All fans consume energy to spin. Belt-driven fans use mechanical energy directly from the engine. Electric fans rely on electric energy from the battery and charging system. But in cooling, what makes a good fan is optimum airflow for cooling with minimum energy consumption (for maximum engine power and fuel economy).

Electric Fans:
An electric fan completely removes the mechanical load of spinning the fan from the engine. It places an additional draw on the electrical system, but this is a more efficient means of spinning a fan, and it has a smaller impact on engine drag. Between the two types of fans, an electric fan offers an improvement in power delivered to the wheels. Removing a belt-driven fan that mounts on the water pump reduces the load on the pump. This can lengthen the life of the bearings in the water pump. One huge advantage that electric fans offer is flexibility in when they are turned on. An affect that most people don't consider is that your engine can come up to operating temperature more quickly with an electric fan because the fan doesn't turn on until a specific temperature. This is nice in the winter time to warm up your car more quickly, and it's critical in drag racing where you want just the right amount of engine temperature of optimum performance. An electric fan can cycle on and off, reducing the electric load. You can wire them to come on when the air conditioning is turned on to maximize the efficiency of the air conditioning system. For a 4x4, you can also add a manual kill switch to turn the fan off during a mud run or water crossing to minimize pulling more than just air through your radiator. Another advantage for electric fans is packaging. We don't mean putting it in a box, but rather how it fits underhood. If you're making engine or cooling system changes, the original belt-driven fan might not line up any longer, or the factory fan shroud might not fit. Electric fans are designed to mount directly on the radiator, usually providing for the most compact and easy installation possible. They can also fit in very tight spaces. A belt-driven fan will typically require at least 3 ½ inches between the water pump and the radiator, while our Low Pro electric fan requires only 1.09 inches at the center where your pulley is. For vehicles where the engine and radiator/fan shroud move a lot - like in off-roading - an electric fan eliminates the possibility of the fan hitting the radiator or shroud. Finally, if you're installing a custom radiator, adding an electric fan is easy and will clean up your underhood considerably.

Belt-driven Fans:
If your vehicle has a belt-driven cooling fan and you're not making major changes to the engine or cooling system, the simplest thing to do is to keep a belt-driven setup. You can, however, increase your car's horsepower and fuel economy without giving up cooling capability by using one of our high-performance Flex Fans. Since a belt-driven fan increases speed (and airflow) with engine speed, it can move more air at higher engine rpm - usually above 2,400 rpm - than an electric fan. Conversely, electric fans move more air than belt-driven fans at engine speeds below 2,400 rpm in typical applications. One major downside of belt-driven fans is parasitic loss. It simply takes more energy to spin a belt-driven fan than it does to produce the electricity needed for a comparable electric fan. Here are some of the applications where we would recommend a belt-driven fan. They are better able to pull air through a restrictive cooling unit. If you have a four-core radiator with an inner cooler, air conditioning condenser and transmission cooler stacked in front, a 7-blade Flex Fan along with a proper-fitting fan shroud will be a great choice for cooling. A belt-driven fan is also a good choice if you are having a cooling problem at higher engine rpm. A lot of off-road vehicles drive at slow speeds with high engine rpm. This can build a lot of heat without any natural airflow through the engine compartment. A thermal clutch fan will make use of the high engine speed to move maximum air.

Which is Right for You?
That's the key question, right? Here's our advice: If you are looking for a performance upgrade then the electric fan is for you. Make sure the electric fan covers 70 percent of the radiator core and moves enough airflow for the engine size (a rule of thumb is at least 2,800 cfm for a 5.0L engine). The electric fan would be a cooling solution for vehicles that typically drive at low vehicle speeds with low engine rpm, such as cruising. If you have a 4-core radiator or towing heavy loads then we recommend you stick with a belt driven fan.

[Curtis]

The question I want answered is what are you Steve doing for cooling. I have experienced that my R16 cooled fine with the stock fan and radiator. Except stopped traffic on a hot day..

The R20 apparently generates more heat which I've been told is common for strokers. I have switched to a champion aluminum radiator. Still in traffic it will warm up.

I've added a pusher fan but have not been in hot weather with it yet. Yes, stock and electric have their pros and cons. But, if you only have electric and it quits then you're screwed. So I will run both. Too much invested in the car.