Paul Walker crash due to old tires-article

[Linda]

Interesting additional explanation:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/truth-behind ... 32892.html
Linda

[theunz]

While good to remind people of the degradation of old tires, those two should of been already aware of the issue. I bet the author had one of those "mommies" who kept showing up at school saying " it wasn't Johnny's fault!"

[mblue97]

True the average person doesn't know that tires harden and lose grip as they age, but the driver wasn't the average person. He was a race car driver and should have known better. There is no where else to place the blame except him. He was driving way too fast for the conditions which include the road, the car, tires, etc. It was very poor judgement on his part and it would have been tragic enough if his was the only life lost, but he took a friends life too. Very sad all around.

[GeoffM]

Even without a byline, Matt Farah's writing style is instantly recognizable. Pretty interesting take.

[bakerjf]

If I remember correctly, the driver wasn't what I'd call a "real" race car driver, but rather a "gentlemen driver" - a wealthy guy who bought his way into the sport, rather than earning his ride with talent and skill. His lack of respect for the sport and professionalism led him to "show off" - on bad tires no less, which resulted in both he and Walker getting killed.

Can you imagine the Dodgers letting a couple of rich guys buy their way onto the lineup? What are the odds they could hit a major league fastball? Zilch. The difference is in baseball nobody gets hurt/dies when they strikeout.

[RCMike]

I agree with Matt Farah 100% on this article. It is stunning how bad a set of tires can make a car. Or how good.

And how much choosing the right set for the use actually matters.

Roger Rodas was a "real" race car driver. I just do not think anyone saw the car losing traction on that road in that way. I was not going 90, but I was not slow that day either. We were leaving the back of an industrial park in the middle of nowhere. I would not have even called that a corner.

I would never have guessed that car was on it's original tires, until I read that in the news. Then I was stunned. High performance tires do not last decades.

So unfortunate.

[bakerjf]

Just so no one is confused about the driver, he was in fact a managing director of wealth management at Bank of America Merrill Lynch. He was in fact a "gentlemen driver" as the term is used in racing. He was not a professional driver - he was an enthusiast with a lot of money who obviously loved racing. Just because you can buy your way into a sport you otherwise never could make without $$$ doesn't make you "a real race car driver" in my estimation, but rather an amateur that races cars (BIG difference).

I saw this wannabe syndrome play out when I was flying in fighters in the Navy, and got to see my boss and a good friend plow a F-4 into a strawberry field in Oxnard 15 years ago killing them both. You can dress up like the real thing, talk the talk like the real thing, and even find your way into a ride...but that doesn't mean you can "hit the fastball."

As "mblue" pointed out, a race car driver would have known better than to push a car around on old tires.

[RCMike]

So I am guessing that Paul Newman was not a "real" race car driver either?

You do not get a license to run in real sanctioned professional racing if you do not know how to drive a car. You do not operate a real professional race team, that survives your death, if you do not have an idea what you are doing.

Feel free to talk trash about the guy now that he is dead, but I think you are wrong here. I repeat, I agree with Matt Farah, and I think it surprised everyone just how bad the tires were, and I honestly wonder if they even looked, or if it was just assumed that since the car had been owned by a professional racing driver (He has only won 2 races, does that make Graham a gentleman racer too, since he would not be in the seat if his dad didn't buy him the spot) that the car would have been maintained..

[mblue97]

Regardless if Roger was a real race car driver or not, and regardless how bad the tires were, he did something very stupid which caused his and Paul's death. He was showing off piloting a 600+ horsepower car in an office park. Even if it had newer tires, there are any number of other things that could have happened which made doing this incredibly stupid and dangerous. He could have come across joggers, bicyclists, other cars, etc. And traveling at triple the posted speed in this area does not give you much time to react if something had come up.

That being said, the article brought up a good point about tires losing traction as they age so I hope some more people learned something. For my cars, I never look for tires that offer the longest tread wear because I have no intention of keeping tires longer than five years regardless how much tread is left.

[bakerjf]

Yeah, re-read my last post...how am I "talking trash" exactly? Everything I stated was a fact, and my opinion that his background, and the manner he got into racing didn't make him a "real" racecar driver.

First, I've been following racing off and on since I was 7 years old. ANYONE with a big enough bankroll, and who doesn't kill himself (or others) in some lower-level racing can qualify for licensure, start a team, and drive for it. "Gentlemen drivers" are something of a necessary evil, as they bankroll "real" drivers who otherwise wouldn't never get a chance to compete since sponsorships and factory rides are few and far between. Are some of them "better" than others? Of course. Are any of them better than 99% of drivers that get paid by sponsors and/or the factory? No. As a banker, Roger Rodas was a superstar; however, in my opinion, he was as much a "racecar driver" as those guys playing pickup games at the park are "basketball players."

If "trash talking" a dead guy includes agreeing with others that driving that kind of a car, on city streets at 90mph, on old tires, for the purpose of showing off for a movie star was stupid, unprofessional, and reckless - count me in. At the end of the day, this accident was all on the driver.

[silvertiger]

Tires the last thing on most owners minds.

I was just talking with a friend who bought a 73 911T with 78K miles. After driving it for almost a year and 4K miles he had an idea to look at his tires. They only had 5k on them BUT found the build date to be 26 years ago! He is 47 years old and a total car guy. It's not like you normal Prius/Camery driver who looks at a car like a pair of cheap shoes or just a second couch. The good new for him the car was not rallied or driven to 7/10 or higher. He ordered a new set right away.

Side note, Being a divorced dad I joked with him saying "the women you date are younger than your 911s tires"!

[Linda]

It would be instructive if there was a video of a car going around an autocross course, let's say, on new or even 1 yr tires. Then in the same car and same course on 5 yr old tires. I want to be able to see the difference because that is how I think people would really have a greater depth of under standing about what tires do. Seeing helps the believing.
Linda

[theunz]

Simply put, the tires did the best job they could, the driver not so much. The tires did not mysteriously and suddenly loose their ability to grip, but had incrementally lost their grip over the previous 9 years. There would have been no noticeable difference in the handling of the car on the day of the accident than the day before. The driver simply over drove the ability of the car on that particular day. It's not like something unexpected broke and caused a loss of control, it's just driver error. This one is on him, no excuses, no blaming anything or anyone, simply the driver!

[RCMike]

No, the tires did not suddenly lose all ability to grip. It would have been a gradual process.

But as I understood the situation at the show that day, they had taken possession of that car within a couple of days of that show. It was very possibly the first time it had traveled fast (like over 10mph) in their hands. They would have had no experience with the degradation. I know for a fact that my car would have no problems taking that 'corner' at triple digit speeds. It would therefore be reasonable to assume a CGT would be capable of same.

Yes, it was the drivers fault. He after all had his feet and hands on the controls. But to me it was a lot like my last track day when 4 cars spun at the end of the straight after a Corvette oiled down the track. I got to see the yellow and red flag and knew something was wrong and slowed down, and drove through the oil and smoke at 20%. The other 4 went through before the flags flew and spun. They had their hands on the controls, so it was their fault they spun. But something of an outside influence had more than a little to do with them sliding off..

I feel the same way about the crash that day, but obviously I am in the opposite opinion of most of you. That's fine with me.

But please do not drive on 20 year old tires. Or even 10.. You might not need the grip for most of the time. But that one time when a Prius cuts you off, it will be your own fault when you do not have the grip you expect.

[spl310]

I disagree with the comparison. Oil on a race track is in no way comparable to driving like an idiot. He may well have been a gifted driver. The tires were old. At the end of it all, he was driving recklessly and two people paid dearly for the indiscretion. If this occurred on a track during a track day, it would be a different discussion. It didn't. If the car had just been race prepped and had new everything, it would not matter. The driver endangered many more people than the two in the car by trying to impress whoever he was trying to impress.