What would try next - Running like crap

[theunz]

Easy to determine compression stroke by sticking your finger in the spark plug hole while turning engine over. You will feel it pushing on your finger.

[roadsterdude1600]

Got back in the shop finally and I will run down everything that I did (most for a second time. Tell me what I am missing:

Adjusted valves .018 cold
Compression test: 142, 145, 150, 145 (1-4)
Reinstalled the distributer gear to the 11:30 position with # 1 piston at TDC on compression stroke
Dropped the dizzy in then moved to 16 degrees BTDC and the stator and reductor are in perfect allignment and rotor is pointing at # 1
(see question later about static timing)
Using a visible in-line spark tester on each plug wire, I am getting spark on each cranking revolution on each plug (1-3-4-2)
I did go out in the dark to see if there was a light show on arcing spark, and no
Battery is fully charged and new gear reduction starter turns the engine very well
Getting gas to both carbs
Primed carbs with gasoline directly into each bowl from the overflow hole to no avail
Even tried a burst of started fluid spray (against my better instincts) with no result
This is the second set of carbs I have hooked up.
They have been thoroughly cleaned disassembled and reassembled with new needle valves at the bowls
Best two (look new) floats from my varied carb parts bin
Float levels adjusted per spec
Choke linkages operate smoothly - carb pistons clunk nicely when probed and dropped
Have tried with chokes enguaged fully, and fully closed. (it tries to fire a little better choked - not unsurprisingly - but will not fire up and idle.
I have a new Gary Boone dizzy (all wires are connected, and components are very clean and nice - but I tried another known good dizzy with the same results just to eliminate that issue
Plugs are wet with fuel after cranking
I have tried another set of plugs just to be sure - these are new, (NGK) and I clean them each time I check them

I feel silly, just cranking again and again hoping for a different outcome. I know I am missing something. Of course doing all this solo is a little harder, but I am used to not having a helper. Gary talks about static timing where he gets a spark by moving the distributer past the contact point at 16 BTDC. How do you get a spark without the coil wire connected?

I have looked at my coil and distributer connections to be sure I have the EI hooked up correctly, bypassing the balast resistor and wiring it using the direct wire and pigtail to the EI. If I am getting a spark at the plug, I must have it hooked up correctly, right? Might my spark be too weak?

The result is the same. It turns over, almost fires but not quite. I took a picture of the coil connection wires and I can post pix of anything y'all might think is useful. Someone remind me how to post a picture....

[redroadster]

Sounds way way way to rich if the plugs are wet after cranking / pull all sp and crank over to clear the cyls of gas , I'd still check the carb slides are moving up and down smoothly ,I fought to get mine that way , hook a vacuum guage up see where it's at , spark plugs did you try another set. if it does run above idle A Power balance test tells much and it doesn't get any easier than that
Double sure on the firing order ?
Make a cell phone video of it running to show us
It's not coughing back thru the intakes
What is the turning torque of the engine cold ,add a redundant neg /ground batt to eng block
sure the points dwell angle is right might try a new condenser too what's the spark look like& how old is the gas

[Bwk2000]

Really sounds like the timing chain jumped to me. Tensioner may have failed after the initial startup.

You have spark, gas and air, it should fire … unless those three are not arriving in each cylinder at the same time.

[Gregs672000]

Thank you for your very detailed efforts, that really helps!
This is what I know: You have spark, compression and fuel. It should run if spark and fuel are being provided at the right time and quantity.
You have the correct firing order 1 3 4 2. I believe that the distributor turns counter clockwise as I recall. Confirm the direction the rotator is turning is correct with the plug wire order on the cap as you turn the engine clockwise with you facing the engine.

To confirm static timing, the cap and all wires are attached and secure to the dizzy. Using the crank bolt, turn the engine until the 15 degree timing mark is aligned with the pointer when on the compression stroke for #1. Turn the key on to run (not crank obviously), and with #1 plug wire grounded to the valve cover with a screwdriver or your spark test light, rotate the distributor until #1 sparks and lock it down; should then be "static" (i.e. engine not moving) timed.

With dry plugs and everything assembled and ready to go, hit it with a short shot (1-2 seconds) of stater fluid with no choke, maybe a slight throttle opening... it should fire. BTW I've never had any trouble using starting fluid carefully to explore what the issue is... it fires more easily than gas, so if there's spark it should fire. Just don't soak things!

Other possibility is that the ignition is not getting spark in the RUN position on the ignition switch. However, you should be able to test this with the static timing exercise above.

If you have a Roadster friend nearby you could compare your set up to theirs, or get another set of eyes on it. I ran my engine with crossed plug wires for 80 miles before the neighbor pointed out my error when I first built my engine.

We'll get it, just keep testing and posting.

[roadsterdude1600]

Greg, thanks for the static timing instructions. I get it now. That's what I'll do next then try the starting fluid. I'll report back

[Gregs672000]

You can also try rotating the dizzy a few degrees at a time between each starting effort and observe how it responds.

[redroadster]

Does the oil smell of gas ?
the starting spray is a complete No No
In a pro shop !, esp if ign timings off can make the eng run backwards shesr camshaft dowel pins , carb spray ok , if it does run clamp of the fuel line so no gas see if it straightens out .On compression tests what's the 1st pump. 1st good pump ideally should be 55%of ideal specs, cold

[Gregs672000]

Curious as to why no starter fluid? I've never had a single problem with it, always used carefully not to run an engine but to see if it's a fuel delivery issue or a spark issue... but I'm always open to learning... so tell me why.

[redroadster]

It explodes 5X s faster than gas does they say the combustion can occur before TDC which can force the piston and rod back down the backwards and go backwards at 1k rpm
The tech line trainers say the only ones that should use it are up north big v8 carbed with it very cold where gas doesn't create fumes also warmer ( above 32° but damp ) if you choose to I'd suggest a 2or3 sec spray and crank that a while before any more
Had 5 times I had a cam gear off then found it sheared off the dowel pin then turned back but jammed where it broke
Do you remember the 72 to 75 dirt bikers converted there's to alcohol fuel many used model airplane fuel there was a plate to change the engine ign timing greatly ,you couldn't do it on 125 cc because it couldn't move it that far

[Gregs672000]

I'm sure there are concerns and one must be careful. I've only ever used it in very short shots (1-2 seconds as I'd mentioned) and not to run the engine but to see if it's firing. If it runs on that one has to then suspect there may be a fuel delivery issue. That's it!
Appreciate the info and response.

[nismou20]

I would pull domes and roughly adjust each piston to barely open (butterfly) and lean out both carbs (nozzles) since you’re seem to be flooding (rich) to get engine to at least start. Frustrating every time you soak plugs having to wait to dry out or pull them to clean! You had it start initially after rebuild so sounds like it’s almost there. Maybe adjust the floats down a bit? Have healthy spark? Play with distributor while attempting start? Cables ok? Are they newish? Check Ohmage? Correct plugs BP6es?

[roadsterdude1600]

I had a few minutes yesterday to try again. I attempted to static time the car as Greg Burrows described, but I am not getting a spark. With the crank at 16 degrees BTDC and the rotor pointing to (actually just to the right of - 16degrees right of) # 1 terminal and the ignition turned to "run" I should be getting fire at the # 1 plug wire when I rotate the dizzy back and forth. I am not, however if I turn the engine over with the starter, it fires regularly. Obviously I am doing something wrong, but before going any further thought I would point out this anomaly.

This is a Gary Boone type EI Distributor and coil. The coil is wired as follows: black with white stripe wire from dash harness to positive terminal along with red wire going to the dizzy. Black wire from the harness and black to the dizzy on the negative terminal. Should I be getting a reading off of the coil wire on a multi meter with the switch on? Trying it on DC voltage with red lead on the coil wire and black grounded I am not getting a reading, but it is firing as described above. (BTW I am an electrical moron, in case that is not already apparent) My Kingdom for a Roadster buddy nearby who I could ply with homebrew while we flail on this beast!!

And yes, I will get there. I am nothing if not determined and stubborn. Thanks for all your help and patience.

[jrusso07]

Hey Mike

For the coil, first check the coil resistance. Disconnect one of the input wire and set meter to Ohms. Read the ohms across the coil input (6 to 8 ohms). Note that the coil is really a transformer, the input is the primary and low ohms and the output, where the high-tension lead goes to the center post of the distributor is the secondary with very high ohms (and voltage when running)

With the ignition on you should see the 12 volts battery voltage assuming you are not using the ballast resistor which is not needed for the E distributor. You should not need/have the condenser either. In looking at the schematic on the tech wiki a couple of things to look at.

Link to schematic: https://www.311s.org/PDFs/1969-70%20Dat ... 20rev9.pdf


Here is a snipit of the coil connections - see Notes 3 and 4. Read the notes that apply below. Maybe look for the yellow/white wire in the harness?

[roadsterdude1600]

Here is the coil wiring FYI (assuming I know how to post a picture)