311sVendor Rock Auto

[fairladyproducts.com]

I ordered a batch of timing chains from Rock Auto on June 30, 2015 that had a major timing component brand. I also ordered some other timing chains on the same order that were closeout items. When I placed the order it was not possible to select shipping for the major company parts because later Rock Auto told me they only ship UPS which is more expensive than USPS priority mail flat rate.

When I received the parts there were only 9 of the item when 10 were ordered and a note on the packing slip that said “DO NOT SHIP BACKORDERS! The 9 items were of questionable quality and made in India and identified on the parts as Rolon. However the boxes and the packing Slip were marked made in USA country of origin USA? I contacted the timing component company and talked to customer service and was told that the item was discontinued and they acknowledged the Rolon parts were made in India and that I should contact Rock Auto to arrange return and get credit.

I called Rock Auto and talked to Cody. I explained that the boxes and the packing slip indicated that the parts were made in USA but that they were actually made in India. Cody talked some monkey business that the supplier could get parts from anywhere and sell them with their warranty. They said I could return the parts but they would not refund the original shipping cost or pay for the return shipping even though the parts were misrepresented and of inferior quality.

Is the 5% discount worth the risk? Would you want your freshly rebuilt U-20 to explode because of a cheap junk chain? The major timing component company does not use inferior chains as a rule and they do know the difference.

I have purchased many parts from Rock Auto over the years and for the most part they have been good to deal with but their return policy leaves a lot to be desired. I asked them to refund the purchase price of the chains and the shiping cost both ways. They refused to pay for the shipping costs. They also said the reason for return was “part not wanted”. This is false since I wanted the parts but they sent some that were wrong and incorrectly identified.

Here are some comments copied from the internet:
Re: Rolon Chain
by xanadu » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:21 am
FWIW i pulled the front off a Cleveland engine after 500miles to check the Rolon chain and it
went from tight installed new to 3/8in slack in 500 miles. Reason for the pull down was the timing was
all over the place at idle. Rollmaster set purchased.
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Re: Rolon Chain
by jsgarage » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:26 am
Someone recently posted about Speed-Pro testing a whole series of cam chains while evaluating suppliers, and they lost a couple of engines to brand new Rolon chains on the first dyno pull, prompting them to not recommend that chain (made in India) for any performance engine. I personally like IWIS chain, FWIW.
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Re: Rolon Chain
by briancb1 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:28 am
In 2005 GM used Rolon chains in their LS engines.

In 2006 is when they switched to Schaeffler (sp?) chains from France. They are tough and is what Cloyes uses in their timing sets, unless you opt to ugrade to their IWIS chain.
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Re: Rolon Chain
by Daniel Jones » Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:40 am
.

Similar experience here. Pulled apart a 351C with less than 8000 miles on
the Rolon chain. It was stretched more than chains I've removed with 160,000
miles.

[mellis18]

Will not buy at Rock Auto. I'll trust those know Roadsters and deal with Roadsters!!

[dbrick]

As long as you KNOW what you are getting they are as good as most, but returns are a pain. They have problems with their listings of Roadster/311 parts crossing up with 411/510 parts and r16 and l16 listings being mixed, but it's not just them. Rear brake shoes, prime example just ended up keeping them, return cost was more than the part..
Our vendors do know the parts better, and already learned which ones are listed wrong.

[Gregs672000]

The true test of a business is how they handle things when transactions do not go well. For a few dollars in shipping costs, they may have lost more than a few Roadster owners, who also own many other cars. I have liked RockAuto and gotten several really good deals from them, including some perfect, all be it 510, master cylinders for yes, $15.00. A company as huge as RockAuto could have easily absorbed the few dollars in shipping...

[fairladyproducts.com]

Here is an update in the ongoing saga with Rock Auto. I returned the chains to an address in Indianapolis per the Rock Auto instructions. Today I called to follow up on the refund and was told that the places where items are returned only process them about once a month. I was told that it is necessary to report the tracking number for the return in order to make the process faster. I also told the person that their site showed a chain that had been made in Japan. I was told that it was Cloyes fault because it was their picture. If one goes to the Rock Auto site and select part number search and then enter 94027 and then select Cloyes. You then select search and the item appears. If you click on INFO an enlarged picture of the chain appears and then put the cursor on the enlarge area. The marking on the chain links can be seen to be "06B" which indicates the chain was made in Japan.

They told me that they had another chain in a different location that was likely the ROLON brand but didn't say they would do anything to correct the situation. These items supposedly have a lifetime warranty.

Stan

[Phred58]

Well, this poses an interesting question. As Stan was doing, I too was researching a replacement for the NLA U20 upper timing chain a while back. I also came across a U20 upper chain under the Rolon brand and did similar research and found out basically what Stan found out with one exception - the chain I located had the Rolon name on the joining link only; the chain itself was stamped KCM brand, made in Japan, O6B as Stan mentions.

If chain stretch is a problem with the Rolon brand, I would think using KCM brand chain with only a "Rolon" joining link would solve that dilemma. It would stand to reason that a timing components company should be able to make a decent quality joining link, shouldn't they??

Also, the quality issue is interesting if Cloyes is using Rolon brand chain - is Cloyes willing to risk its' 80 year reputation selling a low quality product or are the chain-stretch issues with Rolon chains limited to a particular production period or application? The info page Stan mentions shows the chain as having a limited lifetime warranty so if chain stretch happens, which I think would be pretty easy to determine in the event of an engine failure, would they have any liability other than the replacement cost of the chain?

Opinions from others would be appreciated.

[dbrick]

It's a real dilemma, especially if you plan to resell them. Opens up a whole can of worms. It's one thing if I roll the dice and try a part in my own car, and I've gotten some good stuff from RockAuto. But if you order a bunch and then sell them as, to you knowledge, a correct part and one goes bad, that's now a problem for everyone who has one who didn't plan on experimenting. Do you have your own recall? Better not to risk it
I have some experience with this from distributor building. I ended up deferring to OEM or better and threw away some probably usable stuff, including a few dozen no-name aftermarket modules. Bad enough if an ignition part fails and they need a tow home. Whole different thing if you eat a timing chain in an interference motor.
Kudos to these vendors for NOT selling them.

Possibly dumb question...
The cloyes number lists for a BMW, 1973 3.0 among others. On a fast search, the OEM BMW chain is about $75.00, an IWIS (mentioned in one of Stan's quotes from another site) is $43.00. I have to assume an OEM BMW chain would be pretty good quality, and the price isn't too high, granted more than the $12.30 for the "Cloyes" but cheap in the big picture. So will the BMW chain work?

[Phred58]

The chains weren't from Rock Auto but from another nationwide automotive parts supplier. What I did notice is that the chains were built using chain stock from different manufacturers (not really a surprise there) as some of the chains have KCM / O6B / Japan stamped on the links, some have "made in USA" stamped on the links, and one had Rolon stamped on all the links (I'm suspicious of this one - my guess is this is a newer production chain made in India).

I did some further research; the supplier states according to the manufacturer, the chains they furnished are pre-stretched, meet or exceed OEM specifications in both material and manufacturing and are constructed using state-of-the-art automated equipment.

I also looked into IWIS chains and discovered what appears to be different levels of quality with them too (again, not really surprised there either) but haven't been able to determine if an aftermarket IWIS chain is the same quality as an OEM IWIS chain. My guess is probably not, but that's just a guess / opinion and has no scientific basis behind it.

Sorry, I was just rereading the thread and it may seem that I'm highjacking it as this was a thread about Rock Auto whereas I took the timing chain angle instead...

[Gregs672000]

I am completely without knowledge about what has been checked or experienced by others here or on other cars, but is there any objective evidence that one chain is really better or worse than another? Actual experience? Controlled testing? Measurements regarding stretch over time? I realize it may be concerning or deceptive to list a chain made by one co and to ship you another or an apparent mix of chains, but the bottom line is, is there a real difference that we should be concerned about? Just curious...

[fairladyproducts.com]

I realize it may be concerning or deceptive to list a chain made by one co and to ship you another or an apparent mix of chains, but the bottom line is, is there a real difference that we should be concerned about? Just curious...

Greg, Years back I had some chains made for me at a factory near Chicago. They told me that they had developed them to be equal or better than Tsubaki chains that had a great reputation. They tested them for wear and tensile strength in addition to other characteristics. Somehow metallurgy and dimensional control and workmanship do make a difference in overall quality. I do not understand what pre-stretched means. What will stop pre-stretched chains from stretching more?
In order to test your premise, I offer to purchase or pay for a Rolon chain like those discussed in this thread so that you can install it in your engine and give it an endurance test to see what happens. In addition to the information that I copied from the internet, I have been told by some in the "Know" that Rolon chains made in India are of lesser quality than most of the chains made in Europe, Japan and the US. I have resold some chains over the years and have not had reports of chain failure.

My purpose for the posting was twofold, first that the vendor had a bad return policy when they knew of the mislabeled parts and that they were likely of inferior quality and second that people should be cautious of certain brands of chain.

Stan
///

[JT68]

Totally Agree.

The quality definitely varies all over the place. Pin size and roller ID varies as well as roller hardness. Hardness will determine useful life, pin size/side plate quality determines tensile strength. Obviously overall quality is REALLY important cause just one minor defect on one link and well...you know what they say about the weak link.

Pre-stretched doesn't make much sense to me either (unless it actually deforms the pins-ugh), Most "stretch" actually comes from pin/link wear. The tensioner should make up for any minimal "stretch".

I have had good results with Cloyes. I believe they are just standard good-quality parts- nothing special, but certainly better than china, India, korea, brazilia el_cheapo parts. Never built any race engines or high performance engines with them however.

The OEM chains are good, however those certainly have broken over the years too. (Maybe from neglect, extended use, some other valvetrain failure, evil L) - hard to know. They have failed in race engines too, but not very common if changed regularly.

Success will vary depending on how you drive too. If you do 7500 rpm to every stop light, a budget chain is a really really bad idea. If you drive pretty normal, I'm sure a Cloyes or OEM chain is just fine. If you run the engine hard, it is money well spent on a quality chain. Also sure the chains from Stan are very good.

Certainly would suggest you avoid chains of unknown origin...I sure would not test a budget chain or reuse a used chain in a U20 - the results are just too expensive it it lets go.

I'll put up another thread on High performance/Race Chains. jim

[Gregs672000]

Thanks for the clarity on the issue!

[GeoffM]

This sounds like a case of the low-priced vendor having low-priced policies.
Also a case of the lowest priced part having the (potentially) lowest-priced specification.