Outlaw Brakes

[nomadtrash]

I've got most of my Outlaw brake swap completed. All I had to do was make a bracket to hang the caliper and trim the spash shield a little. The calipers fit without turning down the diameter of the rotor. They also weigh in at a hefty 3 pounds. That is a 12 pound savings from the stock calipers, 24 pounds total. I am using the Outlaw 2000 calipers which have two 1.62 pistons and two 1.75 pistons. They are larger overall piston area than the stock calipers. They are also larger overall piston area than the Volvo or Toyota 4x4. More piston area gives less pedal effort for the same amount of braking force. To build the hanger brackets I purchased a ready made hanger from a dirt track shop and then welded some spacers to it. I made the spacers from a 1" piece of solid steel bar which I gun drilled and turned on the lathe to the correct length. They aren't on the car yet because I still need to swap out rotors. The ones that are on the car have been turned smaller diameter to fit under the 13" wheels that used to be on the car. To plumb them it should be as easy as bending the hard line the currently goes from the flexible junction block to the OEM caliper.

Enjoy,

[nomadtrash]

Nobody interested?

I took it out to the first autocross of the season. The new brakes are amazing. It is like throwing out the anchor. When I push the pedal it stands up on it's nose and begs for mercy. I had some problems getting it bled properly. First off it was bleeding fluid from the rear circuit reservoir when I bled the rear and the front right caliper. It bled from the front circuit reservoir on the front left caliper. I don't know the culprit but I suspect the switch block. I had mounted it upside down and backwards. It still should have kept the front and rear systems separate but maybe had a leak. I removed the switch block and installed a Y for the front coming out of the master cylinder and ran the rear directly into a porportioning valve and then to the rear. I still had problems with a soft mushy pedal. After bleeding a couple of quarts through I decided to rebleed the master cylinder again. I had already bled it three times. This time I put the rear wheels on the trailer and the front on the ground. This made the master cylinder angle up towards the back. A huge amount of air came out. I guess the angle of the master kept a bubble in there even after a bunch of bleeding. Now the pedal is rock hard and it stops like is chained to a light pole (American Grafifiti).

I am using Carbotech Panther Plus pads that cost $110 per caliper. That certainly has a lot to do with it. Overall the calipers cost me $128 each and I spent one day cutting, boring, and welding the hanger. The pads could have been a lot cheaper but I needed these special cold compound ones for autocross. I probably have $20 worth of nuts, bolts, brake lines, and other parts. This isn't a bad alternative to the stock brake setup which will cost more to rebuild than this and not perform as well.

Later,

[S Allen]

I do not think that it is no one is interested but not everyone has a lathe in their shop and a welder. I think the brakes are pretty cool and just add to the major modifications you have made to your race car. Are you kicking some bootie on the auto-cross track? So where would one purchase the brackets and how much are they? Nice job and thanks for sharing your talents of making a readily available set of calipers fit on a roadster.

Steve

[Alvin]

This isn't a bad alternative to the stock brake setup which will cost more to rebuild than this and not perform as well.

No, it's not that no one is interested. Andy the statement above is outrageous.
-The stock brakes are more than enough for street and with the proper pad are more than enough for extended track use.
-The cost to rebuild the stock brake setup is initially high but it will last forever, so a brake "upgrade" is pointless and ultimately for "show".

[66Roadster]

Well, I am interested.

1. I have access to the equipment to make the bracket
2. My front calipers on both the '66 and '67 have gone south
3. If I want to go back to stock on the '67 it looks like a bolt on. I have extra backing plates to play with.

Sooo, Andy. Do you have dimensions for the brackets and part # for the caliper. Also, any good pads that are cheaper and better for street use?

Thanks for posting Andy. I thing this is just plain cool!

Phil
SEROC

[SLOroadster]

I'm interested in loosing unsprung weight. As it is, my car stops just fine, but less unsprung weight is just that. I do not however have the tools to make the mounting brackets. Will these still fit behind 14" wheels?

Will

[datsun1500]

Overall the calipers cost me $128 each and I spent one day cutting, boring, and welding the hanger... I probably have $20 worth of nuts, bolts, brake lines, and other parts.... This isn't a bad alternative to the stock brake setup which will cost more to rebuild than this..

So you have $128 x2 + $20 and a days work = $276 + a day.
I can get 4 new piston packs from Nissan for $270 and install them in about an hour.

New Math?

[Linda]

So you have $128 x2 + $20 and a days work = $276 + a day.
I can get 4 new piston packs from Nissan for $270 and install them in about an hour. New Math?

He's a racer and the brakes are 24 lbs lighter.
Race math: less weight= go fast

Linda
68 1600

[nomadtrash]

http://www.stockcarproducts.com/rsusp4.htm
Part number DD-650 for the hanger bracket.
I made the spacers from a piece of solid bar stock. You could make that spacer from anything that is flat on both sides and weldable. A big nut or a piece of flat bar would work. You just have to get it the right thickness and parallel on both sides. I did mine on a lathe but a little time on a belt sander or grinder may work just fine. I think mine ended up at .543 thick and were a little too thin on the passenger side and too thick on the other. It is a trial and error fitament. I ended up using some sheet aluminum shims to get the caliper exactly centered over the rotor. I could have sanded down the pads a little and had no problems but at $55 each I hated to start sanding on them. One pad I did sand the paint off the back side so that it would slide in and out easily. The pads are top load. You just pull the pin and yank the pads out of the rotors. No need to remove the calipers to change pads. I'm not sure how you get the pistons retracted. I'll burn that bridge after I cross it when it's time to replace the pads.

http://www.outlawdiscbrakes.com/2000.html
I used part number 170-3530 and 170-3535
I found them online at a place called Scogin for $129. I don't know if they have any of that part number left. They are for .380 thick discs. I was able to fit them on stock thickness rotors that were about .450". I turned my discs down to .380" just because I wanted to lose a little weight and they were rusty. These were not the same rotors that were on the car. They had been sitting outside for several years.

The universal size code for the pads is HB. Any pads designed for a Wilwood Dynalite caliper with a size code HB will fit. These are not Bridge Bolt pads. You must specify that it uses a cotter pin.
http://www.outlawdiscbrakes.com/pads.html

It is notable that the piston area is larger than the stock calipers. This will cause bias to go to the rear and decrease pedal effort. You might want to install a proportioning valve in the rear circuit if you experiance rear lockup frequently.

There must be something wrong with the universe. Alvin is arguing for OEM parts and Will is arguing against.

I suppose you can rebuild good OEM calipers for less but if you need to fix problems with rusty liners or replace the pistons then you have added expense.

I'll install a stock 240Z steelie and see if they fit. The are physically smaller than the OEM caliper so I don't forsee any problems.

I have argued in the past that the stock calipers are good and I do not change my position. For most people the stock calipers will be more than adequate. There are many people out there who have swapped to 300ZX, Toyota 4x4, Volvo 240, Wilwood, and other brakes. This is just one other option. The look, performance, weight, feel, and overall replacement cost are better than the stock ones.

[datsun1500]

I suppose you can rebuild good OEM calipers for less but if you need to fix problems with rusty liners or replace the pistons then you have added expense.

I am not putting this out to argue with you, I am putting this out there for people that want the easy solution. New calipers from Nissan, (all 4) new in the box, are $270. so there is no added expense.

Not talking about rebuilding them. New. Ready to go.

For that price I wouldn't even bother rebuilding old ones....

[nomadtrash]

That is news to me. The last I heard the pistons were over $75 each and NLA at the dealer. No offense taken here. I have different needs.

[datsun1500]

Nissan must have restocked. Bought 'em last week.

I agree, for what you need, great swap. The weight savings alone are worth it.

[SLOroadster]

There must be something wrong with the universe. Alvin is arguing for OEM parts and Will is arguing against.

This mod at least makes sense. They offer more stopping power with less weight, fewer leak points, retain a larger disk diameter, could be more ridgid as well. I'll take the stock brakes over the Volvo setup any day of the week, the 300Zx swap is cool however limits wheel size.

Will

[dieter ka24de]

I have found the volvo conversion a waste of time and money.
I aggree with the statement that a -
(The stock brakes are more than enough for street and with the proper pad are more than enough for extended track use.
-The cost to rebuild the stock brake setup is initially high but it will last forever, so a brake "upgrade" is pointless and ultimately for "show". )
But only for the sock pwered cars.
Some of the roadters out there are very quick and thing happen very quick.
I have a 240sx front bakes and 300zx rear discs. Was cheaper than my volvo system. Mine are also power disc brakes.The first few times we tested the car we noticed a magor improvement.
I think my cost for conversion with out labaur was around $500. That was was for all four corners.
E-brake and powerbooster took some engineering.

[66Roadster]

I still like his idea.

I looked at the piston sizing from stock brakes compared to aftermarket.

Stock piston DIA –> 2.125 (X2) = 7.093 insq area/caliper

Outlaw DIA –> 1.62 (X2) + 1.75 (X2) = 8.933 insq area/caliper

Wilwood DIA –> 1.62 (X4) = 8.245 insq area/caliper

With Force = Pressure x Area, the Wilwoods are closer to stock in force which will help with brake balance - and easy to find.

Andy –

How did you ‘center’ the caliper on the rotor? Did you just use the brake pads and measure from the caliper mounting face to a flat plain across the mounting holes?

Did you just buy a short section of brake line from the auto parts store to plumb it in – or is there a “trick� to getting it plumbed in.