Car starts - won't run

[mraitch]

1970 1600 Stroked - pertronix
Recent re-nstall. Car initially ran fine (electrically). On a run last Monday it suddenly died. The starter would turn over, the engine would fire but dies the moment i let the ignition switch return to "Run".
I fiddled(wiggled) with the wires to/from distributor/coil/ballast resistor and then it worked - but the problem intermittently occurred, (fiddling/wiggling) worked temporarily. Same thing this morning - died - I wiggled and it ran fine until I got home.

Ballast resistor seems to be running pretty hot (is it supposed to)

What is the best way to track this down?

Thanks

Peter Harrison
818 448 3181

[notoptoy]

There are two circuits to your distributor, a "run" circuit which by-passes the resistor for starting, and the run circuit which goes through the resistor. I'd check the terminals and wires as that seems to fix the problem.

However, with pertronix, that is a 12V system, and I don't think you should be running the resistor at all - and should probably have a 12V coil.
If you have a 12V coil, put a jumper wire across the resistor, or connect all the wires to one post, or connect the wires and remove the resistor all together.

Note these are two separate issues, jiggling the wire is the current solution - and should be addressed first - wires, and terminals are the most likely culprit.
The hot resistor is probably the because of the pertronix set-up.

[datsun1500]

Make sure the plug on the ignition is not coming loose. Reach around the back of the key and see if it needs to be pushed back on.

[Datrock]

Another place to check is inside the distributor to see if one of the wires going to the pertronix may possibly be rubbing against the rotor shaft, it can easily happen if the wires are not allowed enough slack to keep away from things that rotate...Bill

[mraitch]

Checked continuity of ignition switch according to schematic - all checked out - checked continuity of all wires to resistor and coil - all checked out - found a blown fuse - not in the correct place according to the plastic cover - car currently starts/runs - but confidence is middling. Just short test runs for moment (with spare fuses) to see what happens.

BTW there is no resistor in my coil - thus the need for resistor - intend to start upgrading ignition/carb needles once i get the car stable.

Thanks for all your input.

[shifty]

The resistor is there in the stock system to prolong the life of the points. With the Pertronics you can run a 12v coil without a resistor.

Also, check or replace the condensor.

[mraitch]

As to running the car with pertronics w/out resistor - experience indicates otherwise (unless the coil is resisted) - fried pertronics being one demonstrable aspect of said exclusion.

What condensor ?? - If I have one, which I don't think I do, the car was running fine without it.

Currently, (referring back to earlier post wherein I checked continuity per the schematic) - replaced the third lower left fuse with appropriate 20A - car started - and then blew a fuse. Replaced fuse and watched intently while I restarted. Fuse OK - car would start - but would not run - and fuse stayed intact.

Question
My plastic fuse box cover shows as follows ( reading from left to right,top to bottom) - Came with car when I purchased it - perhaps it is wrong
20A Air Con
10A Wiper
20A Flasher (this is the one that blew)
20A Horn
10A Light L
10A Light R
20A Park Tail
20A Common

Tried tracing via the schematic but ran into a brick wall - perhaps one of not understanding

Another clue (perhaps) is that the ammeter reflects high charging even though the battery is fully charged and shows 12.45

I am LOST

[Linda]

Load test the battery at Autozone

Linda

[bikermike]

Peter,

The Pertronix instructions indicate a max amperage of 4 amps for a 4 cylinder application. This can be achieved with or without a ballast resistor depending on the coil you are using.

http://www.pertronix.com/support/manual ... 12vneg.pdf
http://www.pertronix.com/support/tips/default.aspx

In my case I was ok using a 3 ohm coil with no ballast resistor, but I don't believe my car has the "bypass circuit" referenced by notoptoy. The '68 and later cars do.

From Pertronix website:
To determine if your systems coil is compatible with the Ignitor, some measurements should be taken prior to installation of the Ignitor. Caution… While performing this test, never leave the ignition switch on for more than 30 seconds at a time.

Set your voltmeter to a 15 or 20-volt scale. Attach an 18 or 20 AWG jumper wire from the negative coil terminal to an engine ground. Attach positive (red) lead of your voltmeter to the positive side of the coil, and the negative (black) lead to an engine ground. Turn the ignition switch to the run position. Now read the voltage at the positive coil terminal. Turn the ignition switch off. If the voltage measured is approximately 12 volts, no resistance wire is present. A typical resistance wire will provide 9 - 6 volts.

The next step is to determine the resistance in the primary ignition. Label the wires attached to the coil terminals and note their appropriate location. Make sure that the ignition switch is off and disconnect all wires from the coil. Adjust your meter to the lowest ohm scale. If you are using an analog style meter make sure to zero the needle.

Measure from the negative terminal to the positive terminal. Write your measurement down.

Now the maximum system amperage can be determined, divide your voltage measurement by your coil resistance measurement. This will give you the system current or amperage.

Four and six cylinder engines should not exceed 4 amps. Eight cylinder engines should not exceed 8 amps. If the total amperage in your system is higher than the amount recommended for your application, you should install a ballast resistor.

Example
Voltage 12
Resistance 1.5
12 / 1.5 = 8
Total amperage 8

You shouldn't need the condenser (under the dizzy) at all when using the Pertronix.

Also agree w/ datrock to check the wire routing under the distributor cap. You need to be careful that the rotor doesn't rub the wires. Did yours come with an awkward fitting plastic lid with a hole in the middle? I put some heat shrink tubing over my wires as an added measure of protection. One of your wires may be pinched or bare and shorting. Maybe it only occurs when the advance kicks in.

I suggest taking the measurements noted above to characterize your ignition circuit and checking the wires from the coil to the Pertronix unit, including under the dizzy cap. Good luck.

[Linda]

Peter
Check the coil for a nice spark, it may be tanking since it seems like the car is not really starting that easily.

Linda

[dbrick]

If it hasn't been mentioned, check the wiring from area under the master cylinder down to the starter. This 3 or 4 wire harness can get really crappy. Also, fully charged battery is 13.2 volts, give or take a bit, so it may well be charging.

Simple test to eliminate the harness, next time it happens, put a clip lead jumper from battery + to ballast resistor on the terminal not going to coil +. Start the car, let the key spring back. If it keeps running, the problem is not the resistor or coil or pertronix. Remove clip, car should stall. Jump out the ballast with the clip leads, start the car. If it works, ballast is NG. Verify by removing clip, car should stall.

With a meter:
Once the problem occurs, leave the ign switch in run, and you can follow back with a voltmeter, neg lead grounded, looking for ~12v with the + lead at coil, both sides of resistor and to the back of the switch. It will probably be a loose female terminal in a plastic connector, good chance at the ign switch.

With help and a meter
Again, if the problem is occurring, you can put the meter lead at the ballast or coil + and ground, with ign in run, and watch the meter and wiggle connections and wires, see what makes the voltage come back

[mraitch]

Thanks for input - working today but will try tonight/tmw. Still have a question regarding the location/purpose of the fuses

My plastic fuse box cover shows as follows Came with car when I purchased it - perhaps it is wrong

Left Hand bank
20A Air Con
10A Wiper
20A Flasher (this is the one that blew) - thus i suspect that the labelling is incorrect since flashers/turn signals work fine.
20A Horn


Right hand bank
10A Light L
10A Light R
20A Park Tail
20A Common

Tried tracing via the schematic but ran into a brick wall - perhaps one of not understanding.

Could someone help me in identifying which is which. 1970 1600

Perhaps it is from a Z car??

Discovered my charger is dead - so battery is currently at 12.08 - 'splains the alternator bit for now.

Thanks

[bikermike]

It may help if you could you post a pic of the fuse box and cover.

[mraitch]

will do later - thx

[pebbles]

This is from my early 69. Looks like 70 increased a few to 20A.