Another Datsun Nut

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pl510sss

Another Datsun Nut

Post by pl510sss »

Greetings
New Datsun Roadster owner
Acquired a 1969 Datsun Roadster


Need advice on how to clean up the engine bay out.
Would like to remove the smog equipment.
Lots of pipes\plumbing going everywhere.



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datsunrides
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Re: Another Datsun Nut

Post by datsunrides »

Welcome! I see you have added a Roadster to the ever expanding Datsun stable! :lol: My name is Mark and we have met before at a few area meetings. You may remember my orange 240Z. It's pretty straightfoward removing the smog pump and piping. Some have had issues plugging the ports with pipe plugs, so if you do it this way and get a whistling sound after, check the vendor section as a few of them sell specially machined plug just for this purpose. Also, check the wiki about de-smogging the distributor (has a different curve vs. the non smog) or convert to an EI distributor (East Coast Roadster is the way to go) or go EDIS as some others have. I still say the white 510 is one of the cleanest I have seen! Good luck with the newest project!

Mark
1966 Roadster
Turbo / EFI U20 (T25 w/ SDS EMU.)
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dbrick
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Re: Another Datsun Nut

Post by dbrick »

Welcome, nice looking car, I like the wheels. You should talk to Rich, SPL311-29938 who is also in Fremont.
The Desmog is not too complex, but must be done "all or nothing" to have the car run well.


this is from the FAQ, from TR, it covers alot of it. It think Rich has done it to his, and Mark covered more of it.

Question: How do I de-smog a later car?

Answer: First you need to recurve the distributor to the early car specs of 7.5 degrees. There are several ways to accomplish this.

* 1. Recurve with internal parts for an early distributor-springs, backing plate and weights.
* 2. Replace existing distributor with a rebuilt early distributor.
* 3. Replace existing distributor with an EI distributor.(ed)

For installing a new distributor you can go here to read about that!

Next, you will need to remove the air injection tubes and plug the holes in the head and intake manifold. The holes in the head are 10MM X 1.5 Pitch. There was someone making plugs for the head on the list and I believe Ralleye also sells them. The intake fittings are a real bear to remove and you might just want to pull the intake to get them out. You can then retap them for a standard threaded plug. There are actually four things to do to completely desmog the later intake. Plug the two holes in the top where the ait tubes went. Remove and plug the small nipple on the balance tube towards the front. Remove the electrical device with the wires coming out of it on the front side of the balance tube. You can pull it off and use the base as a template to make a solid plate to bolt on where it used to go.

Reset the timing to 0 degrees TDC, start her or him up and fine tune the timing for optimum performance. You can also static time with points by leaving the ignition key on and moving the dizzy until you get a spark. Tighten the dizzy down and you should be very close. An R16 is 16 degrees BTDC at around 600 RPMs.

It was recently pointed out that you should change out the needles in your carbs to the non-smog type as well. Makes sense to me and never having done a smogged car I missed that tid-bit the first time around. Thanks TR!

That pretty much covers de-smogging a later car.

Dave Brisco

Take my advice, I'm not using it"

66 2000 The Bobster
64 1500 in pieces for sale
1980 Fiat X1/9
2009 Volvo C-70
08 Expedition EL, STUPID huge but comfy
1962 Thompson Sea Lancer, possible money pit
pl510sss

Re: Another Datsun Nut

Post by pl510sss »

datsunrides wrote:Welcome! I see you have added a Roadster to the ever expanding Datsun stable! :lol: My name is Mark and we have met before at a few area meetings. You may remember my orange 240Z. It's pretty straightfoward removing the smog pump and piping. Some have had issues plugging the ports with pipe plugs, so if you do it this way and get a whistling sound after, check the vendor section as a few of them sell specially machined plug just for this purpose. Also, check the wiki about de-smogging the distributor (has a different curve vs. the non smog) or convert to an EI distributor (East Coast Roadster is the way to go) or go EDIS as some others have. I still say the white 510 is one of the cleanest I have seen! Good luck with the newest project!

Mark

Hey Mark
Yes absolutely remember you
Who could forget a prestine 240z that you own, that's how I remember folks :smt003

I've contacted Fairlady of Modesto CA, I believe he has those smog plugs for $39

Did you say you will come by on a Sunday to help me out :mrgreen:
Will provide the refreshments and BBQ
Come check out my collection of cars\trucks and barn full of rare parts.
pl510sss

Re: Another Datsun Nut

Post by pl510sss »

dbrick wrote:Welcome, nice looking car, I like the wheels. You should talk to Rich, SPL311-29938 who is also in Fremont.
The Desmog is not too complex, but must be done "all or nothing" to have the car run well.


this is from the FAQ, from TR, it covers alot of it. It think Rich has done it to his, and Mark covered more of it.

Question: How do I de-smog a later car?

Answer: First you need to recurve the distributor to the early car specs of 7.5 degrees. There are several ways to accomplish this.

* 1. Recurve with internal parts for an early distributor-springs, backing plate and weights.
* 2. Replace existing distributor with a rebuilt early distributor.
* 3. Replace existing distributor with an EI distributor.(ed)

For installing a new distributor you can go here to read about that!

Next, you will need to remove the air injection tubes and plug the holes in the head and intake manifold. The holes in the head are 10MM X 1.5 Pitch. There was someone making plugs for the head on the list and I believe Ralleye also sells them. The intake fittings are a real bear to remove and you might just want to pull the intake to get them out. You can then retap them for a standard threaded plug. There are actually four things to do to completely desmog the later intake. Plug the two holes in the top where the ait tubes went. Remove and plug the small nipple on the balance tube towards the front. Remove the electrical device with the wires coming out of it on the front side of the balance tube. You can pull it off and use the base as a template to make a solid plate to bolt on where it used to go.

Reset the timing to 0 degrees TDC, start her or him up and fine tune the timing for optimum performance. You can also static time with points by leaving the ignition key on and moving the dizzy until you get a spark. Tighten the dizzy down and you should be very close. An R16 is 16 degrees BTDC at around 600 RPMs.

It was recently pointed out that you should change out the needles in your carbs to the non-smog type as well. Makes sense to me and never having done a smogged car I missed that tid-bit the first time around. Thanks TR!

That pretty much covers de-smogging a later car.


Thanks for this info
What's the ill effect if I don't re-curve the distro first and remove the smog equipment first?
It's getting on the way and it's ugly



oh yeah
The best part about acquiring this Roadster is that its FREE !!!!!
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datsunrides
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Re: Another Datsun Nut

Post by datsunrides »

You know, I might just be up for that. I've been wanting to check out your Z22 swapped wagon so I can see what was done as I want to go that route (Kinda. I want to do a turbo with Z18ET stuff) but am a little lost on mounts and such. If I remember, you have a hoarding issue with 68' 510 parts. :lol: As for the recurve, your car will still run fine, just not as well as it could. Any help I can lend, let me know. Oh, and free is usually always a good deal!

Mark
1966 Roadster
Turbo / EFI U20 (T25 w/ SDS EMU.)
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dbrick
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Re: Another Datsun Nut

Post by dbrick »

Just leave the timing at 0 TDC until you get the distributor recurved or replaced. Be alert for pinging on accelleration and overheating at idle. Air pump stuff has no affect, as long as the holes are plugged. Be aware, some of the holes are not "normal" pipe thread, so be carefull if you buy NPT plugs.

Dave Brisco

Take my advice, I'm not using it"

66 2000 The Bobster
64 1500 in pieces for sale
1980 Fiat X1/9
2009 Volvo C-70
08 Expedition EL, STUPID huge but comfy
1962 Thompson Sea Lancer, possible money pit
pl510sss

Re: Another Datsun Nut

Post by pl510sss »

I did some reading about upgrading the distributor
It sounds like the Pertronix module will be more cost effective upgrade even with the recurve kit installed.

Is there huge difference in performance and longevity on EI kit?
Still open for that option cause it's a complete package from Dave Brisco.
Provided that he still makes them.
Last edited by pl510sss on Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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datsunrides
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Re: Another Datsun Nut

Post by datsunrides »

Everyone who has installed one of Dave's (and previous to him, Gary) raves about the improved starting/driveability/performance that comes with an EI conversion. I myself have a crank fire setup but the EI conversion is a well documented and proven upgrade. I myself would not mess with a pertronix when there is an excellent alternative out there, with factory parts.

Mark
1966 Roadster
Turbo / EFI U20 (T25 w/ SDS EMU.)
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ppeters914
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Re: Another Datsun Nut

Post by ppeters914 »

Yes, Dave still makes 'em. Although this is an R16, all the basic info you know regarding L/Z motors applies, i.e. Pertronix is better than points, but not as good as full-on EI. You pays yer monies and takes yer choices.

FWIW, my first roadster part purchase was one of the last Gary Boone-made EI's (owner of business before Dave). Car would barely start before....no problems after.....well, not electrical, anyway. :roll:
Pete
-------------------------------------
'67 1600 - frame off started in 2014. Now I know why roadster projects take so long. What a stupid idea. :smt021
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'66 WPL411 ***SOLD***
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Re: Another Datsun Nut

Post by wgb1 »

You are obviously a Datsun nut! Welcome!
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caraddict
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Re: Another Datsun Nut

Post by caraddict »

I've got three roadsters....one with the Gary Boone dizzy, one with the Pertronics unit and one with a very cool "stealth" electronic ignition that still uses the stock roadster cap and rotor so it looks like an original points distributor. The pertronics unit has given me over 10 years of flawless performance and I wouldn't hesitate to put it in any car. The Gary Boone unit has only been in that car for about 5 years but it has also been an awesome unit that has performed perfectly. The custom unit has only been in that car for about 3 years but once again I am happy to report no problems and just as dependable as the other two. Bottom line is to go with what you like but unless you are Ricky racer and are trying to squeeze out every last decimal point of horsepower then you'd have a hard time convincing me that one is any better than the other.

My .02c

Jon
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dbrick
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Re: Another Datsun Nut

Post by dbrick »

I have to agree with Jon, and have said the same thing in the past. The only possible down side to a Pertronix or Crane is that it relies on the original distributor for timing advance control. If the original advance components are worn, stuck or a smog unit, you will have a nice strong spark, just maybe at the wrong time. If people saw the condition of some of the distributors I get returned as cores, they would be amazed the cars ran at all. If you go ahead and recurve it and add the pertronix, it should be a good working unit.

The simple advantage of going with a complete well built electronic distributor conversion (anybody's, any style) is that it's been rebuilt, set up and tested.

Dave Brisco

Take my advice, I'm not using it"

66 2000 The Bobster
64 1500 in pieces for sale
1980 Fiat X1/9
2009 Volvo C-70
08 Expedition EL, STUPID huge but comfy
1962 Thompson Sea Lancer, possible money pit
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datsunrides
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Re: Another Datsun Nut

Post by datsunrides »

Am I wrong to think that *IF* a EI were to fail, it would be more likely to find a replacement igniter for a DB EI than a pertronix? With the DB you'd have possibly dealer, parts house, or wrecker to find a replacement matchbox.

Mark
1966 Roadster
Turbo / EFI U20 (T25 w/ SDS EMU.)
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Re: Another Datsun Nut

Post by Linda »

Mark,
You can get a replacement matchbox. Garry provided replacement parts #s along with his instructions when I bought my EI dizzy from him a couple of years ago. I think the instructions might be here in the WIKI Tech section.
Anyway I got a new back up matchbox on EBAY. Good to have in your glovebox because you are dead in the water if yours fails.
I think I looked up parts interchange numbers for the E12 as well as checking for the module #s for the B210.
Linda

from WIKI:
"Ignition Module – E12-80, very reliable but are expensive new – advise searching salvage yard for
one from a 1979-82 Datsun 210, 310, 510, 810, 280ZX, or pickup. Have it tested at your auto parts
store and carry it in your glove box. Avoid aftermarket modules made in Taiwan"
Sadly-Linda has passed away 2022. She was the 311's den mother and drove the first Rare-Parts ball joint project. RIP.
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